Corvair Turbo

"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo) 01/22/2019 at 11:01 • Filed to: None

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The factroy turbo set up on a Chevy Corvair. It boggles the mind.big ol hot air intake

WilliamsSW > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:11

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Ok now point out the was te gate.  :)

jimz > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:12

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“hey, why do these things ping so badly?”

DipodomysDeserti > jimz 01/22/2019 at 11:15

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Should have never got rid of that leaded fuel.

WilliamsSW > jimz 01/22/2019 at 11:15

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These cars have super low compression and the timing is pulled way back to try to avoid that, but they’re still susceptible of course. 

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:16

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D on’t forget: I t’ s a suck-through carb setup.  A ll that hot, FUEL LADEN air is being run through the compressor wheel, less than two inches from the turbine wheel and hot exhaust gases. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 01/22/2019 at 11:19

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yeah it seems more like a poorly planned back yard project than something GM put into production.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:20

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Corvair had a turbo ?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 01/22/2019 at 11:20

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That’s a design feature . Aids in cold starts.

WilliamsSW > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:21

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Now go look at an Olds Jet fire - the two first turbo cars offered, both by GM, but with pretty different setups.

And this is the one that lasted- almost all the Jetfires had their turbos removed for detonation issues.  

WilliamsSW > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/22/2019 at 11:24

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First turbo car in 1962, along with the Jetfire 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/22/2019 at 11:25

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yup had a cool badge too

ttyymmnn > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:25

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And me being me, I read that as Convair turbo.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > WilliamsSW 01/22/2019 at 11:27

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wow

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:29

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The airflow through a Corvair engine is downwards. It is directly above the fan that is drawing a rather large amount of air from outsides downwards. So functionally, it’s the same as placing the turbo in front of a car’s radiator.

BeaterGT > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:31

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Ah, the ol turbo-rocket fluid.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > WilliamsSW 01/22/2019 at 11:32

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The Olds system worked fine as long you ran the required “Turbo Rocket Fluid” (and the methanol injection system was working right). But people got tired of having to add 50:50 water and methanol to a separate tank every couple hundred miles, and once you gave up on that the system automatically bypassed the turbo... if you DEFEATED the bypass and ran it under boost without the TRF, then you were in trouble... and if you didn’t run the TRF and left the turbo on you got all the parasitic losses and lag with none of the boost, so GM offered to take them off under warranty and set them up as NA engines. It was a competent technological solution that wasn’t consumer friendly.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 01/22/2019 at 11:33

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true thats why the arrow there is blue, you’re still getting hot air from the turbo. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > BeaterGT 01/22/2019 at 11:34

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which I’m guessing was... 2 stroke oil? 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:35

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Ooh; that is a cool badge. I bet it’s highly collectible, too.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:38

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W ater/methanol injection.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 11:39

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Fun fact: the exhaust and intake restrictions WERE the boost control. This was only the second factory turbo car, only predated by the Olds briefly, and vastly more successful. So...lessons were to be learned. Most people prefer the 140's because of throttle response. GM had experimented with a fuelie setup, but determined that the turbo had the same performance for a lower cost.

DipodomysDeserti > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 01/22/2019 at 11:52

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The early Corvairs came with a gasoline powered  heater which was located in the frunk. They had a tendency to light on fire.

RallyWrench > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 01/22/2019 at 11:54

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I can’t help but think of this...

Vat does zis do?!?

It sucks in air...

It’s definitely sucking!

WilliamsSW > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 01/22/2019 at 12:01

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Yeah, the problem was that people weren’t big on keeping the water/ methanol full.

I * think* the Olds ran higher compression than the Corvair turbo also, which reduced the margin for detonation issues.

Seems odd that the two systems were as different as they were now, but that’s how GM operated back then. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 12:17

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A properly sized turbo can actually run quite efficiently without intercooling.

It’s not ideal, but it’s a quick/dirty way to safely make more power.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 01/22/2019 at 12:20

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I’m away that it cant be done, even Porsche did it in the 924 Turbo, and that was 15 years later. It ju st seems so counter intuitive.

WilliamsSW > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 01/22/2019 at 12:56

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These things are slow as hell below about 3500 RPM. Much slower than the 140 engine ( single carb/ low compression = no power out of boost) . Turbo lag for days, too.

Been looking at these and really think I’d like the 4 carb better than this setup.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > WilliamsSW 01/22/2019 at 13:04

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The guys that go all out go for a cut intake and IDAs over the turbo.

J Clark > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 13:07

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If you could time your acceleration requirement about, oh- 13 seconds ahead of time, these were quick little cars. They were the ultimate definition of “turbo lag.” Nonetheless,  my ‘ 65 Monza convertible was a great car.

Saracen > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 13:09

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Not really a whole lot of engineering went into it. Just a quick and dirty way to get a bit more power out of it.

Somehow it produced a peak 10psi without intercooling.  Eeek.

RacinBob > ttyymmnn 01/22/2019 at 13:14

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I’ve flown on one of those......

ttyymmnn > RacinBob 01/22/2019 at 13:20

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I think my brother may have as well. I have a very vague recollection of seeing one at the airport at Burlington, VT many many years ago. Maybe it wasn’t BTV. I’ll have to ask him. 

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 14:33

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The suck-through carb will lower the charge temperature somewhat. It’s also not a high-pressure turbo... It’s what, a 2.7L engine that made 150 net hp, not at the crank, 150 before deducting accessories so probably like 110 or so under modern ratings.  And it’s air cooled, so it’s not like they could ram a huge amount of boost through it without causing problems.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > WilliamsSW 01/22/2019 at 16:32

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it was quite the plumber’s nightmare by the standards of the day...

Texasfoolontherule > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/22/2019 at 17:18

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this is also where the “turbo” muffler came from. The turbo naturally quiets the exhaust note so the muffler doesn’t need so much baffling and allows for a straight through design.

WilliamsSW > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 01/22/2019 at 17:27

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Pretty! And yeah, pretty complex for 1962, too. 

RacinBob > ttyymmnn 01/22/2019 at 21:59

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Convair CV-580 Conversion from Convair CV-340 (Allison Prop-Jet Convair 340) or CV-440 aircraft with two Allison 501 D13D/H turboprop engines with four-blade propellers, in place of piston engines with three-blade propellers, an enlarged vertical fin and modified horizontal stabilizers. The conversions were performed by Pacific Airmotive on behalf of the Allison Engine Company . [13] Cost of the conversions was around £175,000 per aircraft and took 60 days. [9] The CV-580 served with the original Frontier Airlines (1950-1986) and North Central Airlines for many years and was also the first aircraft type operated by American Eagle on behalf of American Airlines in code sharing feeder service.

I flew on it when it was North Central and then Northwest. The big Allison turbo engine with gear box impressed me.

Allison turboprop engines were also used to re-engine Convair prop airliners which resulted in the Convair 580 turboprop passenger aircraft which was widely used by local service and regional airlines in the U.S. such as Allegheny Airlines , the original Frontier Airlines , North Central Airlines , as well as major carriers American , Eastern , United , and Pan-Am .

ttyymmnn > RacinBob 01/22/2019 at 22:46

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That’s interesting, because from what I can find the Allison turboprop was only used on military aircraft, aside from the Convair. I’ve had a piece about turboprop airliners banging around in my head for months. I just need to find a day or two to write it.